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 Just a Rant.

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Jobine
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PostSubject: Just a Rant.   Sat May 04, 2013 4:39 pm

Heres a big fat rant. About the EoC. It does not contain any feedback whatsoever.

I dont know if you guys realise, but combat is DEAD.

You see, i played Runescape for one thing, and one thing only.

PvP.

Wheather it is safe or Dangerous, PvP was something you could look forward to. While somewhat imbalanced, the old combat was FUN. And yes, i know, some might percieve it as a big AFK fest. But i dont think this is necessarily true. Sure, there was the ole' whip/rune/dds and whatnot, but pre-eoc, you would have able to choose how intensive you wanted your combat. You could pick some chill veng fights, some "field aware" pure PvP, some fast clicking Summ Tanking, or even hybrid, and know, that every time you would visit the PK world(s), there would always be someone there in your level range to fight, wheather its a rusher or not.

Sure, some things needed balancing. Korasis sword and dragon claws were WAY too overpowered, but this could have been fixed without remaking the combat system. Range and mage underpowered? Once again, simply adding torment and anguish could have easily fixed those and motivated more players to train prayer. Mains were underpowered? Nope. Back in '10 i pked a lot on my main, yet didnt lose fights. Why? Because the skulling system could work in favor of the main. The main didnt need to risk his expensive armor against the 1-iteming pure, not forgetting the main had access to many quest rewards that the pure didnt.

Speaking of which, i recall there was VERY LITTLE dead content before EoC. Sure, Rat Pits and Trouble Brewing were quite stale, but those could have been easily reworked in May, instead of pointlessly trying to rework the most popular minigames yet failing to understand why they are no fun. Heck, i LOVED single way clan wars. I loved Duel Arena. I loved fighting off hordes in Soul Wars. And Castle wars had a dedicated community that actually played, not for getting a trimmed comp cape.

Dont believe the EoC is no fun? The number one reason ive hated the wilderness is because of no-honor jerks, pjers, rushers, 1itemers, etc. And for that, Jagex gave us the ultimate place to play in: the crucible. You had no item protection, and a nice bounty fee. But oh look, the crucible is empty. Doesnt that show something? Wilderness Mechanincs are NOT the problem, its the fact that the combat system is NOT FUN.

Now before you call me whatever you call Ming N Excal or whatever ****hole you see on the forums, lets remind that I have LOTS of experience with the new combat, and during the last 6 months, ive completed 80% of the games quests, acquired Drygores, and have been supporting jagex on almost EVERY SINGLE UPDATE THEY RELEASE. Speaking of quests, every quest boss is now a joke, and can pretty much be soloed in full mithril. As for PVM, id like to thank jagex for making it challenging again, but not 6 months later. You said yourself EoC was ready.

But im tired of this. Yes, dont get me wrong, EoC has LOTS of potential, but it seems Jagex cant even get their priorities straight. In fact, there are only FOUR Jmods working on the EoC itself:
- Mod Chris L
- Mod Element
- Mod Avatar
- Mod C3DPO

And those 4 jmods not only are responsible for the DICTATORIAL rebalancing of the game, but for all COMBAT RELATED CONTENT. What the F***?

Warbands. The prime of EoC Pking. Am i the only one here who thinks these would have been AWESOME in the old combat system? With clans like FOE, MM, EOP, Fi, SOL and more (ive been in MM and SOL in the past, btw), these new deep-wilderness camps would have awesomely revived the dead "deep wilderness".

And no, unlike most, i absolutely hate the piece of garbage called 07. Gameplay is terrible, graphics are bad, and i dont wanna make a new account into an economy run by autotypers and bots. But theres a reason why a good portion of videomakers play 07: They love the combat. In fact, the only community present on 07 is the PKing one. Why? Its not nostalgia, its a BETTER COMBAT SYSTEM.

All of this reminds me of pokemon. When i used to competitively play pokemon (dork alert) back in DDP (2007-2011), i absolutely hated how Smogon (the company that managed the tiers) would always make major changes to the tiers, forcing me to recalibrate my team every month or so. Same thing with EoC: constant, yet unapproved changes by the community ruin the economy, and ruin players' comfort zone.

I barely find PvP fun anymore. If no shielder is present, the first one to win is generally the first to reach threshold level. As for shields, the first one to reflect is generally the winner, but my problem with shields is that shielders cant KO opponents, which often leads to a boring tankfest that the shielder wins 90% of the time, unless both are shielders, which is infinite.

Its been 6 months, all non-forced minigames are dead, with jagex killing the last one alive, Strengh, Cooking, Fishing and Summoning are almost 100% dead content, there is no active pking community whatsoever, there is no "new audience that jagex tries to attract" and the reason why most still play, is because like myself, are addicted.

Who is there to blame? Myself? Sure, whynot. Ive been giving feedback afterall, maybe the EoC would have been better without it (#earlybeta). JMods could also be the ones to blame, but which ones? The four that are working their asses off on the EoC? They are just trying to please us. Should we blame the community? You know, those trash-talking scrubs like W0nder Guard why spammed the beta forums, preventing useful feeback from being implemented? Maybe.

Who knows. I just dont even know what to do anymore. I wanna try new things in RS (slayer/pvm/questing/lore), but when i do, nothing compares to PvP. It just doesnt.

Its been 6 months. Your move.
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Manwe

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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 04, 2013 4:43 pm

Duel Arena and Clan Wars are alive and well (and fun, at least in the case of the former).

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Leadership is not about strength, nor glory, nor honor. Leadership is about understanding the people you lead, and serving their wills as much as possible, while remaining just, and protecting them. A leader, no matter how great or strong, is nothing without his people.
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Jobine
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 04, 2013 4:46 pm

Clan wars is filled with NSers, except its now Team NSers, which makes it worse.

Duel arena, meh, no reason to go there anymore, like ive said, its the combat system thats the problem. I dont find EoC fun anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 04, 2013 5:04 pm

If EoC was never planned, and Jagex was just going to nerf Melee and buff Ranged/Mage, everyone would still complain.

There are always moments in a game's life where it is just a mess. Players that quit during these moments have a hard to time returning to the game because they only remember what is wrong with it, regardless of any fixes made to the game. Because that quitting moment was a low point in the game, everything before that seems so pristine and perfect.

That is from experience. I quit WoW during one of it's low points and I can't find myself to even play it anymore because all that comes to mind is why I quit. EoC hater stop playing Runescape and won't attempt to like the EoC now because all they remember is leaving when it was introduced.


Both the community and the developers are at fault here. The developers barely communicate with the players, they give us a BTS that has the same amount of depth as a Dr. Seuss book. The community doesn't understand what feedback is, and Jagex hasn't defined what feedback is, the "player" mods have.


Jagex needs to do 3 things:

1) Start monitoring the forums a lot better, enforcing their rules and talking back to players making sweeping statements. They need to do this in a respectful, but assertive, manner.

2) Open a few public beta servers where players can test upcoming game mechanic updates.

3) The developers need to communicate more with the players, whether it's in-game, on the forums, or through other social networks. Right now, the players speak to the community staff who might tell a developer something by ear.

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The proper response: "you are wrong and here is why..."

The wrong response: "you are wrong"

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Jobine
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 04, 2013 6:37 pm

Im not saying the EoC is bad, im just saying theres a LOT of work to be done, and it was NOT ready when it was released.
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sun May 05, 2013 6:43 pm

You do know that that's the players' fault though. If we'd actually tested the Beta (more than a few hundred at a time), Jagex would have gotten the feedback they needed, they wouldn't have had to rush it, and it would have been complete on release.

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Leadership is not about strength, nor glory, nor honor. Leadership is about understanding the people you lead, and serving their wills as much as possible, while remaining just, and protecting them. A leader, no matter how great or strong, is nothing without his people.
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Mon May 06, 2013 1:17 pm

Quantum wrote:
You do know that that's the players' fault though. If we'd actually tested the Beta (more than a few hundred at a time), Jagex would have gotten the feedback they needed, they wouldn't have had to rush it, and it would have been complete on release.

You can't just blame the community. 90% of all MMO communities act just like the RS one, nostalgia and all.


Ever since the beta we asked Jagex to make stats matter, yet it took this long to make them matter. But they go ahead and introduce a new formula for armor while they were at it.

Every video of Jagex testing something, they set their HP to insane levels while wearing armor and weapons players wouldn't use.


Jagex needs to listen to the players that break down their updates down to it's mechanics, because Jagex's testers use methods that regular players cannot/will not use.

_______________________________________________________________________
Why treat argument as a bad thing?

The proper response: "you are wrong and here is why..."

The wrong response: "you are wrong"

The usual internet response: "you are wrong and stupid your mom is a bitch you are dumb as shit no one will ever love you LOLOLOLOL"



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Capricorn
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 11, 2013 12:01 pm

Quantum wrote:
You do know that that's the players' fault though. If we'd actually tested the Beta (more than a few hundred at a time), Jagex would have gotten the feedback they needed, they wouldn't have had to rush it, and it would have been complete on release.

Not entirely true. While Jagex wasn't receiving feedback en masse, they were still receiving quality feedback that they chose to ignore. The EoC had about 3 more months of work that needed to be done, but they decided to release it anyway. Because of it, everything is constantly changing. Don't get me wrong, change is the nature of RuneScape, but when I can't buy or sell anything without the fear of some random update coming along and ruining my bank, stats, or gear, there's something wrong, and that isn't how a LIVE GAME should be treated; that's how a BETA should be treated.
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 11, 2013 12:40 pm

Sakatsu wrote:
Quantum wrote:
You do know that that's the players' fault though. If we'd actually tested the Beta (more than a few hundred at a time), Jagex would have gotten the feedback they needed, they wouldn't have had to rush it, and it would have been complete on release.

Not entirely true. While Jagex wasn't receiving feedback en masse, they were still receiving quality feedback that they chose to ignore. The EoC had about 3 more months of work that needed to be done, but they decided to release it anyway. Because of it, everything is constantly changing. Don't get me wrong, change is the nature of RuneScape, but when I can't buy or sell anything without the fear of some random update coming along and ruining my bank, stats, or gear, there's something wrong, and that isn't how a LIVE GAME should be treated; that's how a BETA should be treated.

If only Jagex was like Blizzard in the way that they look for the quality of the feedback, not the quantity (buffing Drygore and fixing all 3 prayers when they left magic broken, when it was the only one broken, for quite awhile).

_______________________________________________________________________
Why treat argument as a bad thing?

The proper response: "you are wrong and here is why..."

The wrong response: "you are wrong"

The usual internet response: "you are wrong and stupid your mom is a bitch you are dumb as shit no one will ever love you LOLOLOLOL"



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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 11, 2013 4:19 pm

Zamochy wrote:
Sakatsu wrote:
Quantum wrote:
You do know that that's the players' fault though. If we'd actually tested the Beta (more than a few hundred at a time), Jagex would have gotten the feedback they needed, they wouldn't have had to rush it, and it would have been complete on release.

Not entirely true. While Jagex wasn't receiving feedback en masse, they were still receiving quality feedback that they chose to ignore. The EoC had about 3 more months of work that needed to be done, but they decided to release it anyway. Because of it, everything is constantly changing. Don't get me wrong, change is the nature of RuneScape, but when I can't buy or sell anything without the fear of some random update coming along and ruining my bank, stats, or gear, there's something wrong, and that isn't how a LIVE GAME should be treated; that's how a BETA should be treated.

If only Jagex was like Blizzard in the way that they look for the quality of the feedback, not the quantity (buffing Drygore and fixing all 3 prayers when they left magic broken, when it was the only one broken, for quite awhile).

Yeah, if only. 'til then, we'll just have to deal with their competent balancing skills.
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PostSubject: Re: Just a Rant.   Sat May 11, 2013 8:11 pm

Cap, go read my thread in the Admin forum. The one with the setting 'READ THIS'.

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Leadership is not about strength, nor glory, nor honor. Leadership is about understanding the people you lead, and serving their wills as much as possible, while remaining just, and protecting them. A leader, no matter how great or strong, is nothing without his people.
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